Curse

floppinghog · Aug 07, 2006, 07:58 AM // 07:58

lemme just add this post as well, if your joining someone's group, you must fill their desired roles, if you want in.

if you want to run some wacked build, make your own group, be a tough guy and have people work around you for a well made group.

i can only see that you (OP) couldn't understand why you yourself got kicked from a group cause of some skill you said you had and they told you they didn't want it. you come off that way, so its fair to say this is the whole reason for this pointless thread people wasted so much time typing for. including me.

take this quote to heart:

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt" - Abe Lincoln

Sli Ander · Aug 07, 2006, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by floppinghog

such a bunch of nonsense, all of it

lets see:
your single character is only 1 piece of a group which can get things done, IF all characters have reasonably useful skills for the particular area they are attempting to travel in.
a monk is usually who must heal, why? they are supposed to.
warrior is usually the big guy who must take all the dmg so casters dont, why? they are built to. they "CAN" nuke like an ele, oh wow so original, so interesting, it can be done, but its retarded.

do what works best and stop being noobs.

Since when did doing what you're supposed to become fun? Seriously though, sometimes healing is fun, but it irks me that its 'required'. But I love being a monk, so I deal.

Quote:

its like some monk thinking,
hey ill bring a pet just so i have another tank
(keep in mind this pet would not be lvl 20, not be tided to high attributes either)
so whats that pet going to do? ok he'll tank, until it dies, locking the monk's skill bar for 8 seconds, making him totally useless for the team. see the problem? if you wanna be experimental do it alone, on your own. and quit being a dumb ass, yes DUMB ASS with people. no one wants your "inventive builds" cause they dont work efficiently. you cause unnecessary problems for groups.

This is my build:
Healing breeze
rebirth
bane signet
banish
Shield of judgement
charm animal
comfort animal
Balthazar's Aura.
Go read the Smiting monks posts in the Monk forum. I've got the full explanation for it there. I use this to do henching and soloing. I've henched most of the missions, and 90% of the map with this.My cat outlasts henchmen and sometimes characters, while allowing me to do comparative damage.COMPARATIVE. Not the best, not the same as a warrior, but pretty good for a monk.

Quote:

when people want a group of people, they want people who can play the roles hench play, only with some what more brains (god forbid humans think intelligently). if they wanted people to be dumb as dirt and have monks tank, then they would bring mhenlo INSTEAD OF YOU. Thats Your Example.

elitism my ass..

Yes, monks(except maybe 55's)can't tank. But humans will be humans. We come in all shapes, sizes and colors. Whats wrong with wanting to have a little variety? I heal when people politely ask, or if I know them well. But if you want me to play the role of a henchman, well, Mhenlo's standing right over there...I'll go take my inefficient build and beat you to the other side.

Sli Ander · Aug 07, 2006, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by floppinghog

lemme just add this post as well, if your joining someone's group, you must fill their desired roles, if you want in.

if you want to run some wacked build, make your own group, be a tough guy and have people work around you for a well made group.

i can only see that you (OP) couldn't understand why you yourself got kicked from a group cause of some skill you said you had and they told you they didn't want it. you come off that way, so its fair to say this is the whole reason for this pointless thread people wasted so much time typing for. including me.

take this quote to heart:

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt" - Abe Lincoln

I actually haven't been kicked from a group, but I have had to conform to other peoples builds AFTER EXPLICITLY STATING I WAS A SMITING MONK AND BEING ACCEPTED. They wanted healing, and I was tired of waiting around for some open minded people. Elitism is a popular problem, as you can see in threads from Nolani's Academy of the Arts, to Why I don't PvP. Tell me that it doesn't play a factor in this game. I am attempting to be objective in this thread. And I even asked for suggestions for a solution. You would rather post in a thread that you consider pointless, to tell me that I need to conform to the status quo. I'm trying to stand on the fence, because as a monk, I do enjoy the occasional healing. But because monks are universally accepted, its easier for me to see how other people are overlooked or insulted because they are not 'useful'.
Try these two things before you post:
1. Look at it from a new angle, maybe look at someone elses post and attempt to see it as reasonable.
2. Read your quote, and take your own advice from good ol' Mr. Lincoln.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CORSTEDPIRATE

In PvE(which is what I mostly do) builds don't matter all that much. Sure, certain skill sets can make things easier. The thing I generally look for when I am forming a group is the ability to read. It is more important for people the read the instructions and say "yes I can do that," or "can we try it this other way instead." It is perfectly alright for people to experiment when I am the group leader. Rude or impatient people are kicked imediately no matter what. Perhaps some people may see that as elitist, though it is just avoiding the likely occurance of over aggro(in my opinion anyhow).

Oh well, this thread kind of evolved so I am not too sure if what I have said fits in very well.

Actually your post is right on target. I myself would kick someone for rudeness and such behavior, because thats simply not respectful. And thats all I'm really trying to get across. Elitism(read jerks, close minded people) isn't something that people should have to deal with. In the high end missions and PvP, there is simply too much of it, and it disrupts the playing experience of others. To put it in simpler terms, we're talking about discrimination. People who see a player as a cog in a wheel, and kick you (unreasonably, after all team work is important) because they think you're noobish, etc. I'm simply attempting to open a forum for suggestions about how to get around the problem, whatever shape it may take. Usually its simply a bunch of players who simply think too much of themselves, and so must insult all those 'below' them.
Sorry about the length of these posts, I'm trying to be understood correctly the first time.

floppinghog · Aug 07, 2006, 08:17 AM // 08:17

i dont have time to get into this, all im going to say is, pvp is pvp, theres room for experiments with people who will attempt them, and then theres random arenas and the rest of the narrow pvp where anything can go.

pve you know what monsters run, its set in stone, so, your counters - your builds SHOULD be too. what works, works, what doesn't, don't belong. (there are alot of counters for alot of things even so, you know.)

running that build is perfectly fine with henchmen, you know what they do, who to take, to make your group useable -and their smarter than the average human anyway. asking a human to figure out how he can fit your mixed objectives is pointless. when you deal with people you dont know, it has to be simple, you all have to understand a certain ground level of the game, a monk should heal (who else can as good as a monk? no one) tank should tank.. (who really can tank better than a warrior? without the wasting of skill slots? no one)

do you understand what im saying?

Sli Ander · Aug 07, 2006, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by floppinghog

i dont have time to get into this, all im going to say is, pvp is pvp, theres room for experiments with people who will attempt them, and then theres random arenas and the rest of the narrow pvp where anything can go.

pve you know what monsters run, its set in stone, so, your counters - your builds SHOULD be too. what works, works, what doesn't, don't belong. (there are alot of counters for alot of things even so, you know.)

running that build is perfectly fine with henchmen, you know what they do, who to take, to make your group useable -and their smarter than the average human anyway. asking a human to figure out how he can fit your mixed objectives is pointless. when you deal with people you dont know, it has to be simple, you all have to understand a certain ground level of the game, a monk should heal (who else can as good as a monk? no one) tank should tank.. (who really can tank better than a warrior? without the wasting of skill slots? no one)

do you understand what im saying?

While I do understand you, I also disagree with you. If you didn't allow individual builds, but say(I know this is extreme) gave only premade monks, warriors, etc. at the beginning of the game, it would be no fun. GW is a changing game, an evolving RPG. Even if it wasn't, the players would change. I don't have to explain my build to a teammate. I just say I'm a smiter, and I'll explain if he's curious as to how. There are only two roles to fill in a team: damage dealer and support. If I'm smiting, I just switched roles, and its easy to understand. Also, since my build isn't set in stone, I can easily switch out half a dozen spells I know will work equally as well( for instance, I'll toss in heal party or something). You take away unique roles and you take away versatility, and the ability to learn it. And while I agree healers heal best, and tankers tank best, this is a game. Sometimes its about whats most fun. Even if its not efficient.Which is what this thread is all about. People who lord it over someone else, because of apparent experience, etc. can make it harder to have a pleasant experience. All I want is some ideas how to make it easier again.

floppinghog · Aug 07, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

I actually haven't been kicked from a group, but I have had to conform to other peoples builds AFTER EXPLICITLY STATING I WAS A SMITING MONK AND BEING ACCEPTED. They wanted healing, and I was tired of waiting around for some open minded people. Elitism is a popular problem, as you can see in threads from Nolani's Academy of the Arts, to Why I don't PvP. Tell me that it doesn't play a factor in this game.

ugh, let me sleep...

yes, alot of people can't read for beans. even after they read a line of text, which btw stays in history logs.... they ask questions answered in that line afterwards. i know. i deal with people even when im selling an item for a set price at a certain location... they ask where i am and how much it is.... its amazing.. to say the least.

look no hard feelings here, but you only add to the "no healer? *kick* mentality cause thats what people naturally expect from a monk. .... because monks do it best... you see.... the BEST for the job is desired, why settle for less?

i gladly read the quote redirected to me, because the web of ideas people try to create with the statements of others is a waste of time. we r indeed humans, we r not perfect, nor can anyone be so right about every little piece of their words. the ideas are what are important, and until you have a way to connect brains for communication, there is no perfect way to communicate.

everything I've said till now in short: whatever, it doesn't effect me

edit: hang on, for above post, the last line; the only ideas are new chapters, new classes have no previous experimentations with - thats when theres room for versatility.
And really, thats all you can get from now on.

The game was made for you to be able to play alone for a reason, for you to do what you like to. experiment. or be anti social.... either way, i'm afraid its that and groups who really dont care, and invite any class, for no reason (showing no alligence to a cookie cutter or proved team build) are your answers.

Matsumi · Aug 07, 2006, 08:39 AM // 08:39

I find that people like to toss around the elitist insult just as much as the word noob is used. I think it's really bizarre actually. So, does that deem you as being one on the other side of the fence from the mention of somebody being elitist? Meaning you're not elitist, because the term is used so frequently by yourself or others to point in the direction of whatever you dislike in others? I really don't get it, please explain.

Or is it like an automatic response in defense to somebody calling you a noob? Because I've also found, after some missions or battles when somebody gets called a noob, or leeches get bad-mouthed in Aspenwood, they get jumped on and called elitists.

Like somebody said previously, it's kind of like human nature in a way. People have to come up with stereotyping systems in their head, and deem others under a certain category, in order to cope with something maybe. In online gaming cases, maybe their own insecurities or frustrations? I don't really understand the purposes of these names really, do they have some special purpose in being able to play guild wars with others and function normally? Is there a cure? lol.

imo people sometimes suck at playing, sometimes they don't, big deal.

Sli Ander · Aug 07, 2006, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matsumi

I find that people like to toss around the elitist insult just as much as the word noob is used. I think it's really bizarre actually. So, does that deem you as being one on the other side of the fence from the mention of somebody being elitist? Meaning you're not elitist, because the term is used so frequently by yourself or others to point in the direction of whatever you dislike in others? I really don't get it, please explain.

I mainly started this thread because of the whole pve/pvp fight. People are always saying one side is worse than the other because of cookie cutter builds/ jerks/etc. They are both just as bad in my opinion. Perhaps I've misused the term, because I barely use it myself. The point of this thread is to generate some ideas as to why it is this way or how we can change it. 'It' being things like smiter monks(not55's) and mesmers being overlooked in pve, to rankless people having to go through hell and high water to play pvp in certain areas. My first post kinda rambled, so I hope this clarifies.
As for me, (as i posted in replies in this thread) I know there are times to kick people, there are times to help people by changing builds or suggesting builds. But to be rude, disrespectful, or to demand in that manner such a change is what falls under 'elitism' for me. If I'm going to be kicked, I'd prefer it be done politely, and with a reasonable explanation. From what I've read on this forum, sometimes its just a bunch of people being complete jerks. So what can we do to circumvent these jerks without sacrificing the way the game is played?

Matsumi · Aug 07, 2006, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Oh I see, thanks for clarifying. I don't really know what can be done about that situation. People seem to be convinced that one combination, and one only in most cases, is the only thing that ever works. They don't seem to want to think about it any other way, otherwise they might get a headache.

Kind of like the guy that wants only 3 warriors, 2 monks, and 3 nukers in their group. Because of the key phrase "because it works" that clicks in their heads. Oh ya, maybe the occasional MM of course, can't forget them. They obviously "work" too I guess. So, I guess the whole idea is find what works and forget about it, anything else, and it's too much for them to handle. That's why a lot of the professions or builds in this game are deemed useless, or *cough* inefficient. I don't think there is a solution, because these kind of people are more stubborn than a bag of bricks. You don't work (in their opinion), you get kicked. Plain and simple. My only hope is that some of these people start experimenting more, and with other professions, then maybe they'll find out that what they think works, isn't the only thing that does.

fb2000 · Aug 07, 2006, 09:26 AM // 09:26

I havent read the whole of it, but I wouldnt blame the game for people's attitudes, even tho its a game whose developer I think sucks very bad lately. but nvm

theres a lot of people who will not / would not try new things, its simply a fact of humanity.This can be see in pve as well as in pvp.. the second fact is, a lot of people are arrogant bitches, both in pve as in pvp.

why do you think anet added friendlist and guilds

. but yes, if you have a specific build in mind, try organizing your own party..

Dana Hawkeye · Aug 07, 2006, 12:44 PM // 12:44

One way i think to help stop this 'elitist' stuff, especially with builds in PVE is to have random spawns of enemies at different locations within the areas. Also to have different enemy 'builds' spawning as well.

This would then make teams/PUG's think a bit more about 'mixing' their teams with the not so popular professions, because they will not know exactly what professions/skills the enemy will be using or where the enemies location will exactly be.

This could also go some way in stopping the 'bot' farming.

Relambrien · Aug 07, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Here's my personal experiences in PvE (most recently with a Ranger, Assassin, and Warrior)

As I'm looking for a group to do a certain quest or mission, I'll get into one and find out one of the party members has a *questionable* build. But that doesn't matter. As long as a party has the following, from any combination of characters, things will work out:

Tanking
Efficient Healing/Protection
Damage
Some degree of coordination

I use the term "efficient" in that a W/Mo with 2 Energy Regen and 27 Energy (assume glad's set) isn't a very good dedicated healer. He can heal himself but that's about it. By "Efficient Healing" I mean a dedicated healer, like a healing monk or restoration ritualist. Ritualists also play a role in protecting the party (think Shelter, Union, Shadowsong, etc.) so they can both heal and protect a team.

Now, tanking isn't necessarily "needed" if you have efficient healing and protection, but it makes things one HECK of a lot easier. If you can get all the enemies on one AL 96 target (assume glad's and shield) that makes the healers' job a whole lot easier. Not to mention the tank should have some defensive skills of his own. Pets can tank as well, but that encroaches upon the master's skill bar and limits his own choices. At least two slots will be taken by Charm/Comfort Animal, and Call of Protection is always decent at reducing damage.

Damage is absolutely REQUIRED to complete most missions. Sanctum Cay is an exception but there aren't many others. It doesn't matter where the damage comes from as long as you get it. Eles, warriors, necros, heck a smiting monk, it doesn't matter as long as all the other roles are filled. You just need to be able to hurt the enemies enough to kill them.

Now, coordination is, imo, the most important thing a party can have. If you have 8 people all running in different directions then you're probably gonna lose. The best thing that can happen is for the leader of the group to be knowledgeable about the mission or quest, tell everyone so, and then direct the group with map directions. This keeps everyone together. Now, to make sure everyone fills their roles, they should tell everyone their purpose and give any special instructions to help fill the purpose better. For instance, a tank would say, "Hey I'm a tank, and I've got some good defensive skills, so stay out of my aggro circle when I aggro the enemies. Once they've all attacked me, actually hit me, then you guys can come on in," or something like that. An Ele nuker could say to the tank "Try to get the enemies close together." An SS nec could do the same. Now an MM could say "Please try to kill enemies that leave corpses first so I can make some minions."
With that setup, here's what would end up happening. The Warrior would go in and aggro a group of 3 melee, 4 casters. He would run straight to the casters, so that the melee and the casters are now close together. The group, which has been patiently staying back, sees the tank being hit and so comes in to do some damage. The Warrior calls one of the casters, one of the three enemies that leaves a corpse, and so everyone gets on that caster. The healers are efficiently healing the tank whenever he takes a dangerous amount of damage. The ele nuker and SS Nec are hitting that target with everything they've got while the MM uses some support spells he brought that he could use until he got some minions up. The target goes down, and the SS nec, realizing the MM needs minions, decides not to Putrid Explosion the corpse. The MM then makes his minion, the Warrior calls the next corpse-leaving target, and the group proceeds to the next target. This would all happen within the span of about 20 seconds.

That's an optimal thing though, a type of coordination usually achievable only in one's guild. Notice, however, that no one except the tank was being attacked so that's all the healers had to worry about. The others were then free to fill their roles without needing to worry about getting hit. As long as you can get that in a PuG, chances are you're gonna have an easy time with the quest/mission, at least compared to what it would be.

In conclusion and to sum up everything I just said:

In PvE, as far as I'm concerned who you get doesn't matter, their skills don't matter, as long as you have someone who can tank, someone who can heal, someone who can protect (optional, but helpful), and some people who can deal damage. Just get some coordination after that and you're good. As a side note, anyone can be considered someone who protects if it prevents damage to the party. A Winter Ranger in the Fire Islands for instance. An Interrupt Ranger or Mesmer when battling Glint. A Warrior who's not the primary tank snaring enemies that chase after the softies. If you can prevent damage, focus damage, heal damage, and deal damage, in PvE you're good. Those people who think you should only use one specific build just want things done their way. One build may be more effective but as long as you can do what was stated above, things will work out. This is why I don't demand a specific build, I just work around whoever I have in my group.

The Four Rules of Damage in Guild Wars:

Prevent damage. Avoid taking damage if you can.
Focus damage. Attack one target, and make sure the enemies attack only your tank. This also falls under preventing damage.
Heal damage. Someone's gonna get hurt. Make sure you can heal it.
Deal damage. If you can't hurt the enemies, they're not gonna die.

I hereby dub this the PFHD rule of PvE. I just came up with it during this post believe it or not XD. If you follow the PFHD rule, you should be fine.

Now, for PvP it's different. You can't focus damage to your party. The enemies will not see a tank in their aggro circle and say "ATTACK!" Preventing damage is possible by kiting but prevents you from doing anything else. Healing is absolutely REQUIRED, generally by combining healing and protection across your two or three monks. Protection is attainable by having a spirit Ritualist in your party. Damage comes from just about any non-healing source. In PvP you want to be as effective as possible. Therefore, demanding a specific build is more justified. In PvE you can substitute less healing for more damage, but in PvP, you need as much as you can of both. Due to the rigid requirements, only the most effective builds are welcomed. Yes, IWAY is still an effective build if the enemy doesn't have a clue how to beat it. After all, you're not aiming for just one goal of getting past a bunch of NPC enemies, you're fighting other HUMANS who are using the most effective builds. Therefore, you want to be using the most effective builds yourself to be on par with them. Skill then plays a major factor, as whoever's better at playing that build will win.

So yes, in PvP the variety is limited, but it's much more justified in PvP than PvE. Most experiments are possible only with one's guild and alliance in PvP. So if you want to experiment, that's really your only choice. Otherwise, you'll find a group fairly easily :P

And as for "elitism" in the sense of "I have 15k armor so you're a noob and you will do what I say or you will be kicked" or something like that, having a certain item does not reflect a certain skill level. Heck, he could've Ebayed and bought the gold to buy it, we don't know. The only reflection of skill level anymore is to see someone in action. Rank is now more of an indication of who's been playing the game for a decently long time, as I haven't seen any non-rank 3+ groups in HA for a while. I'm r4, so that doesn't affect me, but restricting access to HA means no one else will even get to r3. Personally, I think a temporary rank system (something like WoW's) would be good, and would be used in all forms of PvP, not just HA. But I digress. Anyway, people who believe they're better because they use a certain build are wrong because it's the build that's better, not necessarily the player.

Well I just had a brainfart so I can't remember what I was gonna say next. Anyway, if you come across someone in PvE who doesn't like you for the build you use, just forget him and make your own group. In PvP, sorry to say this, but you probably won't even get people to join a group you make.

Jetdoc · Aug 07, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

The ONLY reason you would play a non-MM in pve is if you were 55 farming, or if someone else was playing MM.

Wow...I don't even know where to respond...

As a general rule of thumb, MM's are a nice addition to most PvE parties. However, there are many, many instances where a MM is INFERIOR to other necromancer roles. These include:

1. Areas without an abundance of exploitable corpses.
2. When you are soloing (without henchmen) against very high level enemies.
3. When facing enemies with high amounts of AoE damage, since minions are stupid enough to not scramble from that AoE.

I play many different types of necromancer roles, MM being one of them. I can say that in many high level areas, I have found that a BiP necromancer is much more valuable to a party (keeping the monks charged) than the incremental benefit of having additional targets that go down in one hit.

Jetdoc · Aug 07, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

To the OP -

Part of your post is really targeting discontent with the "cookie cutter" builds that are demanded by parties. I have found, however, that almost every party out there asks players to fill a certain "role" in their party, but aside from taking 2-3 required skills to fill that role, the remaining 5-6 skills are generally COMPLETELY flexible, allowing you to play with your build to fill other roles as well.

For example - if a party asks for a SS/SV Necro, you know that you have to carry (1) Spiteful Spirit; (2) Spinal Shivers; (3) Arcane Echo. A ressurection signet is also highly desireable.

Guess what - that leaves another 4 skills that you can play with. Yes, there are some inherent skills that just work beautifully with these skills, such as Awaken the Blood and Blood Ritual, but again, not absolutely required and 99% of the time you won't be ostracized for not bringing those. That allows you to play around, to create originality within that "role", and may cause you to create some synergies that others may not have thought of.

So, in short, Elitism exists, but there are many ways to navigate around it to continue to have fun in the game.

Eviance · Aug 07, 2006, 02:39 PM // 14:39

It's just maturity level >_< Some players I've seen have every right to brag because they are JUST THAT GOOD (however they typically don't)! Others brag because it makes them feel better because they have a cool sword/axe/bow/staff or because they have the uber armor.... Elitism should stay with those who are skilled enough to be named thusly. Typically you will find that those who are that good won't brag on it. And those who do typically suck so bad -_-

Case in point: An old guildie of mine thought he was so uber elite with his 55 mo/w and that he could take on the world (back before the AoE nerf). We were trying to do Thirsty and he said he could practically solo the mission and so forth... I told the chic I was with not to count on it and I would have prefered not to have him along.... He died 3 times before we ever even made it to any gates! THREE RESTARTS! So he semi rage quit saying he was dissapointed in how badly he was playing today -_o (like that was any different from any other time). She and I restarted and completed the mission first try without him.
Don't brag unless you can REALLY back it up -_-
That guildie eventually moved back to WoW >_>

Mithie · Aug 07, 2006, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

What game are you playing? PvP isn't about skill. It's about who has the most abusable and broken builds. Rank is a measurement of time. Reputation is a measurement of skill.

Explain to me, why, out of 200+ guilds copying EvIL's build down to the very last skill, none of them are in the top 100?

erick5876 · Aug 07, 2006, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Whoa! Nazi communism and non-MM hate aside, back onto the original topic:

Elitism comes with the territory. The fact that the game has a competitive element incurs it. In any setting where competition leads to one party taking victory or being ranked above another in any way will over time lead to elitism in the environment. It's in human nature to struggle to survive, and feel good when one succeeds. It's occurred throughout history, and it's not something that can be fixed. Mankind needs that sort of struggle, that sort of competition to fuel their inner drive toward progress. Case in point: the space race. We would never have even known anything existed beyond the grass under our feet if man had been content sitting here on our duffs. We would never have made many of the advances in technology if not for that competition. War causes much of the same results. Mankind needs conflict to progress. It's what separates us from the animals, who (once they have all they need to live out a comfortable life) simply comply with their situation and make no further effort to willfully change.

Also, elitism is neccessary to the competition in any such game. People don't participate in contests just for the trophy. They're out for the territory that comes with it. What would happen if everyone in PvP thought to the effect: "Oh that poor player doesn't have a very trusted skillbar... maybe i shouldn't roxor his boxors cuz he can't handle it."

That marshmallow and icecream world may sound nice, but would it be any more fun than Mr. Neo Nazi's straight up suits all the time reality? Actually, they sound rather similar if you consider he was complaining that all NewGens* only care about themselves.

So, in short, other than people generally being assholes, the elitism (to a degree) is unavoidable and neccessary. In-game changes may reduce it, but you'll never completely get rid of it. And for the sake of competition, I hope you never do. I do agree that some people take it to another level, a level of dickhead proportions. Once again, however, that problem has been around for ages, and is not something that any in-game fix can control.

*

I can't resist here: the age range of the average gamer is between 18 and 30... A much older age bracket than was estimated when video games were first concieved. This indicates the consumers have grown with the market (or the market with the consumers depending on how you look at it), instead of new ones being brought in. So what's up with your so-called "newgen?" I'm 19, and still a part of that first gen. That's right, I know what Atari is. I remember Pitfall.

YunSooJin · Aug 07, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

I dont have a problem with Elitism if the person is not full of hot air.

I dont have a problem with Newbies if they are willing to learn.

And no matter how much people think their little personal builds roxx00rzs teh box0rz it means very little to those who know how to play the game. If you want to throw a tantrum and label it elitism, I welcome it.

Sli Ander's build sure looks like a lot of fun, but to me it smacks of 'incompetence'. If you want to have fun with your own build that groups aren't really willing to sponsor, then I suggest you use henchies. I don't even know where to start with the general critique:

Healing breeze - subpar healing skill. This skill will not save anyone who is near death. Although you are an admiited smite monk, so I suppose you don't care.

rebirth - standard skill.

bane signet - why?

banish - why?

Shield of judgement - This works if you've got one tank (pray for no ench strips)

charm animal
comfort animal

Balthazar's Aura - so you're going to have someone tank with SoJ and then scatter all of the monsters with Balt's aura?

Your build might be fun, but you're being shortsighted and selfish by attempting to tell people that they should be forced to allow your type of gameplay. It's worse that your build is not anywhere near optimal (in comparison to a real axe warrior..? an MM? a ele nuker?) in terms of damage output. The biggest crime I think that lies with your accusations is that you put up a build like this and then cry "elitism" when people kick you from your group. I'm not entirely surprised to be honest. If I was forming a group and you told me the build, I would probably kick you as well unless you were willing to change your build.

If you want to smite, I suggest PvP's FotM Air of Ench smiting. It's about 20x better than your build.

Finally - it doesn't matter whether you like hearing elitist comments or not. The raw truth is just that, and no matter how much you close your eyes and cover your ears the fact will not change or go away.

Thallandor · Aug 07, 2006, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiery

I am level 99 and 20 skills, I look at you and your a noob. Level and 8 skills the problem, I think not. Let me say the famous WoW quote " go play WoW and grind for level 60".

I think the more famous WoW quote would be: L2P (Learn to Play).

Its a Game and one with no subscription at that, expect more jerk than normal if they have not grown bored and left that is.

dreamhunk · Aug 07, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

yea really want to the problem fame/ emote!

I think anet should block that emote from pve! peroid why it recks the fun for alot of people!